bigcol ; It can actually happen, my youngest son is a Ford supporter but only when he's not looking at some rice boy ****e , but the oldest son ( sigh ) he's a holden lover. Started off just wanting to get anything that wasn't like the old man but after the first jap car died . and seeing how i had a real nice 2 door HQ he decided the holden's were the go, He has very little mechanicle aptitude and i've spent many weekends helping him repair , engines, gearboxes, clutches,etc.He's hard on them i guess because he's had about 6 now from VC to VR and not one has got past 6 weeks without somthing breaking. My worst nightmare occured with a VK 6 he blew the engine in on christmas, and being short of time i let him badger me into changing over to my Blue 202 with the black motor 12 port head which i had in a HQ i used to race.Then a few days later he wrote it off and let them take it to the wreckers for $100. I still have his blown up 202 and 4 speed in my shed. very sad.